Honda CR280 build

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Davo
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Honda CR280 build

Post by Davo »

So ive been planning this build for about 18 months but have only just been getting parts together recently... things are starting to move along so i though id post something up about it for anyone thats interested... funnily enough i only recently met Jeram who is doing a very similar CRM250 build by chance... it'll be interesting to compare the two when theyre done...

Ive had my 2007 CR250 for about 4 years now... its been my test mule for all sorts of engine and suspension modifications (with varying degress of success!)... its had more rebuilds than i can remember and i have a shed full of spares for it so rather than laying money down on a new bike i thought id just modify the %$#@ out of this one. Its getting a full on big bore/stroker/long rod build with an ignitech ignition to control the Powervalve, powerjet (already has a pwk38 on it), and ignition curve.

The plan is:

68.5mm bore (up from 66.4)
76mm stroke (up from 72)
130.3mm rod (up from 125.3)
Flat top piston
Toriodal combustion chamber


To be honest as i type this im already planning the next stage of this build which will take it over 300cc but more on that later...
Im still waiting on the stroker crank which should be here in a couple of weeks


With the cylinder, I was about to bore and plate one of my spare cylinders and then found a cheap, freshly plated 2003 68.5mm Eric Gorr cylinder, head, powervalve and new piston for about the same cost as plating here, so the decision was easy... get the EG stuff... ill still need to modify the porting layout to work with the rod/stroke changes but it gives me a spare cylinder, head and powervalve... which gives me some spares to play with the 300+ idea...


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Like lambs to the slaughter... EG cylinder and head on the left, others are 2007 cylinders and head


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Engine is already out of the bike, partly cleaned, ready for mocking up and finalising porting

In order to make the cylinder work with the longer rod i needed to make a spacer plate to go between the cylinder and cases... I used a stock base gasket as a template and modelled it using Mastercam X4 CAM software... machined one up the other day out of 8mm aluminium plate... worked a treat on the new cnc mill...

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The final thickness will be worked out later once i have the crank, but it will end up around 5mm thick with stock base gaskets either side



I still have to design the final toroidal combustion chamber but I already know the basics of what its going to be... I have done several tests using the CAD/CAM software and its great to design exactly what you need and check volumes before cutting anything... then send the g-code file to the mill and it just spits out a perfect copy in aluminium, way easier (once youve learned the software! which has taken a lot of work) and more accurate than doing it by hand on a lathe which is what ive done up until now. Going to do some experimenting with squish clearance and compression to see what i can get out of the toroidal head shape... a little dyno time will be in order once its running. The 02-04 head has a nice low plug height which will be perfect for machining into the final design on the cnc mill...

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Because this first stage of the project is using a 2003 cylinder i need to machine up a flange to fit the 2007 male ended pipe to the 2003 cylinder, which normally has a female ended pipe. Will do this in the next couple of days using the 2003 exhaust flange gasket as a template for the basic shape

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the new flange will bolt onto the 2003 cylidner and fit the 2007 pipe inside



Ill work out the final porting numbers once i get the crank but its been interesting to look at Eric Gorrs work...this particular cylinder really has had very little done to it other than a few knife edges 8O and a tiny amount of grinding at the top of each transfer port. The rest of the duration changes have just happened naturally as a result of boring the cylinder the extra 2.1mm.


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EG cylinder

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Mould of the transfer ducts


Finally, the Ignitech ignition... theres no pint showing a photos of it cause its just a small balck box and im sure many of you are already familiar with them... but it has some magic inside!! Ive already had it hooked up to my bike before i took the engine out... its awesome to connect the bike up the the laptop and make changes to the engine as its running, just love it!! There are some gains to be had with a stock CR just by changing the powervalve opening map... in stock form the powervalve flutters heaps and using the ignitech it is smooth as silk, and you can better match valve opening to rpms.

Ill be using the ignitech to run the ignition curve, the exhaust power valve and the keihin powerjet. Plus ill be utilising the potentiometer control for the acceleration threshold, with a small dial mounted on the bars

This build will probably take another 3-4 weeks id think and to say i am excited is an understatement:D

I race offroad and my interest is in broad power, not just peak hp so ill be doing everything with an eye to keeping it as ridable in the sloppy wet stuff as possible... in saying that i think 57ish crank hp will be realistic but time will tell... the software tells me that a bit more is possible but i'm not sure it'll suit my riding... then again its always fun to aim high then i can always detune it with the ignition.
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Jeram
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Re: Honda CR280 build

Post by Jeram »

nice mate

good to see its comming along :)

you'l probably beat me, Im still waiting to get my damn frame back!
the following 4T propaganda was brought to you by your local 2T lobby group...

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2TInstitute
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Re: Honda CR280 build

Post by 2TInstitute »

If you see knife edges on transfer dividers it's a sure sign that who ever did it has no idea of what they are doing and have just copied that from days of yore.

Ignitech should work a treat, use a RGV coil to, hook up a TPS off a RGV and don't worry about potentiometer build a 3D map and let the right hand control everything.
Torroidal heads do SFA.
If you have cylinders plated here you will either get ripped off or shoddy work.
57 will take a lot of work that is mainly down to the pipe more so that the pipe needed for that HP won't fit on the bike.

Little CNC looks like fun
Davo
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Re: Honda CR280 build

Post by Davo »

2TInstitute wrote:If you see knife edges on transfer dividers it's a sure sign that who ever did it has no idea of what they are doing and have just copied that from days of yore.

Ignitech should work a treat, use a RGV coil to, hook up a TPS off a RGV and don't worry about potentiometer build a 3D map and let the right hand control everything.
Torroidal heads do SFA.
If you have cylinders plated here you will either get ripped off or shoddy work.
57 will take a lot of work that is mainly down to the pipe more so that the pipe needed for that HP won't fit on the bike.

Little CNC looks like fun
Ok ill look into the rgv coil, thanks. Already got a tps on the pwk38 that im currently running... potentiometer was only for playing with accel threshold rpm level, not so much spark advance that will be done with 3d map as you suggested.
With toroidal heads, do you mean they do sfa for this application, ie below peak hp, or overall? I havent tried them yet but ive heard people smarter than me say they are great and others say not so great.

The mill is great! itll do things up to about the size of a football... its a little slow but worth the effort.
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Jeram
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Re: Honda CR280 build

Post by Jeram »

would I be correct in stating that the toroidal heads only have a true benefit when the turbulence in the transfers and cylinder is reduced to such an extent (due to advanced design, eg GP bikes) that additional turbulence is beneficial after the exhaust port is closed for proper fuel atomisation.

In our 'chook chaser' motors Id dare say that there is enough turbulence in the cylinder prior the the closure of the exhaust port to appropriately atomize the fuel.

either way, were talking tiny gains, 1/2 hp or so (thats a guess).

I believe this is the 50+hp pipe size that 2Ti is refering to

Image

thats about 100% bigger than the OEM honda pipe
the following 4T propaganda was brought to you by your local 2T lobby group...

"whats that youve got there?... a 450? "
yeah...
"what cereal packet did that come out of? "
huh?...
"I just wanted to know, because theres nothing worse than finding a piece of shit in the bottom of your corn flakes. "
2TInstitute
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Re: Honda CR280 build

Post by 2TInstitute »

The torriod will make SFA difference, a simple test is if someone thinks the torriod is better just have to ask them "why is it so?"
Aprilia GP engines don't run a torriod that's good enough for me ;)
Davo
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Re: Honda CR280 build

Post by Davo »

Thanks Jeram and 2TI... you learn something new everyday!

However i was under the impression that the aprilias did run toroidal heads in their gp bikes and thats what sparked my interest... mainly from the conversations over at pitlane... Ill have a re-read (again) over there cause maybe i mistook the talk of toroidal heads to mean that aprilia were running them...

As you said, im certainly not going to argue against the aprilia design thats for sure!

What design do they use then? Just a standard hemisphere or are there other key elements?
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Jeram
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Re: Honda CR280 build

Post by Jeram »

oh, I didnt realise Aprilia werent running them either, shows how much attention I was paying.

I guess theyre running the 'bathtub' shape heads then are they?
the following 4T propaganda was brought to you by your local 2T lobby group...

"whats that youve got there?... a 450? "
yeah...
"what cereal packet did that come out of? "
huh?...
"I just wanted to know, because theres nothing worse than finding a piece of shit in the bottom of your corn flakes. "
Davo
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Re: Honda CR280 build

Post by Davo »

4 new carbide cutters arrived today so i was able to finish the exhaust flange... although broke another cutter about 2 min into it... that was $60 well spent... could have been beer money for the week.

The flange worked out pretty well... still working on getting the toolpaths right with the cnc mill, had a few hiccups along the way but overall im happy with it.

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Picked up a bag of parts from the local Honda shop today as well, also sandblasted an old rusty Pro Circuit works pipe i had lying around, think ill try to resurrect it for this build... just need to measure it up and see how it performs compared to the stocker... ultimately i think the stocker will be better for what i want in the end though.

Now just waiting on the crank...
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Jeram
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Re: Honda CR280 build

Post by Jeram »

Nice mate,

you will have to teach me the basics of toolpaths when I come out to your place one day. sounds very interesting!

just shot you a PM on SM-AUS
the following 4T propaganda was brought to you by your local 2T lobby group...

"whats that youve got there?... a 450? "
yeah...
"what cereal packet did that come out of? "
huh?...
"I just wanted to know, because theres nothing worse than finding a piece of shit in the bottom of your corn flakes. "
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