Front End Ideas 350LC

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DOC03

Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by DOC03 »

OK, so call me a little crazy, but I like doing things a bit differently and while i'm waiting for Pipes and Rad for the Hybrid thought I'd get around to cleaning up my Head Space which has had a few ideas bouncing around about what to do with the spare parts I still have left.
Ive had this Rizoma top triple from an FZ1 that i just couldn't bring myself to offload and a set of R6s RWU forks which were right diam but wrong triple. Anywhoo I went ahead and sourced the lower Fz1 triple and bingo, she fits and so do the R1 Blue Spots i've had sitting around, straight on the forks no adapter.
So I got an old RZ triple, got the center pressed out and the pressed back into the FZ1 lower, grabbed a new set of LC Taper bearings and Bingo, what you see is what you get :-)
Now i''ve also been toying with the idea of Spoked Wheels, but this is causing more headaches than the $$$ in my pockets can handle.
Have been chatting with Jon W re this and he suggested later model Adventure Bikes might hold the key, but so far i'm coming up dry.
I picked up an XTZ750 Super Tenere front wheel and thought id landed on my feet, dual disc, can accept the speedo drive (small mod) but..... I can't fit the Blue Spots, Bugger..
So anyone got any ideas on what I could do.
Different calipers that might fit ???
Different Front Wheels ???
All crazy ideas considered..
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OzzyElsie
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Re: Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by OzzyElsie »

(Use more paragraphs to separate your ideas - organizes your thought and it makes for easier reading :wink: ).

I'm not certain of your probs you seek to resolve. I'm assuming you will want/need a 17 inch front wheel. Converting your 21inch wire spoke XTZ750 Super Tenere front wheel to a 17inch wire spoke wheel will be an expensive proposition, a mag would be a better, cheaper and easier proposition. Depends on the 'look' you want I guess but you did mention $$$$$$'s.

I'm assuming the RZ triples with FZ1 forks have given a different 'spread' at the axle giving wheel/spacer issues?

Whats the issue with the disc/caliper combo? Do the blue spots line up withe the FZ1 fork mounts but not with the disc diameter?
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." - George Fitch Atlanta Constitution, 1916
DOC03

Re: Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by DOC03 »

You're right, bit of a brain dump.

Just thought id see if anyone had any experience with Spoked Wheels on more modern forks etc, as I have already done the RGV conversion on my Hybrid.

The 21 inch was mainly for the hub and twin discs but was thinking of re lacing to 17 rims.

The issue with Blue Spots is clearance on the spokes. Mags don't have this problem but the spokes angle out. It looks like most calipers for Spoked wheels are only 2 pot on the outside wheras the Blue Spots are 4 pot having a greater mass on the inside of the caliper which engages with the spokes.
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Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by Greasemeup »

What are the centres for the FZ1 fork spread and fork diameter?

What is the calliper spacing?

What is the disc size?

Ash's Spoke Wheels in QLD quoted $980. odd for mine to be done.



What swing arm you gonna use, the LC one is for a Drum Brake, will the hub fit into your chosen arm and will the arm go into the LC? What about torque arm on LC swinger?


I like the idea, have been collecting TDR parts to do it on a YPVS, fronts are similar, rear will be easier on YPVS than LC.

I think modifying a FZR or similar swinger to fit in LC frame using OEM top shock mount, rather than modifying an LC frame to take a rising rate shock setup would be easier.

Metmachex swing arm around $1000+



Keep us informed.
GMU



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JonW
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Re: Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by JonW »

Yeah spokes and calipers is always a worry. Do bear in mind though that:

1, the angle will change when you relace and you can space the disk and caliper over a bit as well with bracket/spacers
2, using larger 320mm disks will move the calipers out more towards the rim as well.

....but... well, yes space will always be tight for calipers with opposing pistons.

I also had awfully expensive quotes for relacing from Ash's. you could buy a used set of quality motard wheels for that money :( In sydney there was a mob at the end of parammatta rd that did respoking... name escapes me at the mo tho, they were a little cheaper.

Has to be said, this work will that mean that this wont be a budget thing... hubs and then 17inch rims (try Torpedo7 they may have a set that fits and ear not mega money) then spokes and lacing, then brakes... eek. you could easily do a single disk version like on my XT with KTM kit for cheaper, but I agree that twin disks has a lot of appeal with a fast bike, which this one is. Still when done it will be a killer build for sure. :)

Fitting a disk rear wheel in the LC swingarm has been done lots of times by the UK guys, and with a few mods it can be done using the ideas that GMU puts forwards, I would weld a tab on the swingarm, but to be honest the LC swinger is a bit thin, hmm... used Metmachex appear on uk ebay and norbos forum but post will be killer, new is just silly money imho. nice kit tho, but it seems they overcharge for bearings and other parts when needed, so be careful of that.

A bit OT: I wouldnt mess with the frame on an LC when fitting any new rear shock, you just have to build up the swinger to fit the OEM setup. there isnt a lot of room on an LC in this area. Replicating the rising rate from something else would be hard to get the geometry right i reckon. Look at the RGV conversions for RZs, you dont have to get them wrong much for it to not work properly and that is a well documented conversion. Whatever you do like this will be a compromise as any extension and strengthening of the arm will move and transit forces differently into the shock and the rest of the frame, a worry with any conversion. Bear in mind LC (and RZ) frames were not designed for the forces of better suspension (especially forks) and bigger tyres and brakes LOL. no big deal but we should remember it. As an aside someone told me recently that if you crash an LC with retrofitted USD forks you wont bend the forks, but you will bend the frame, do the same accident on the LCs spindly OEM forks and you would just bend the forks... food for thought perhaps? nah! I love the newer suspension and 17s! :lol:

Pete, you could always find some longer forks and spend the money on up-n-over pipes and build an off road LC... I'll get me coat! :D
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Re: Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by Greasemeup »

Re LC swinger, modding an original seems a good option.
I was looking at the way the Megelli one is constructed, very similar to LC but with a couple of extra braces. I will post a pic.

How thin is the LC arm and what material is it made from?


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Re: Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by Greasemeup »

Pic of Megelli arm.

Image


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Re: Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by BRG1200 »

Are you taking the Megelli as inspiration? Woulda thought geometry very different and rare in the wreckers yards? Mdded standard sounds viable
Ex UK, now in Adelaide. LC250/350. DT175. Shed full of sh1t in the vague form of dismantled rusty RD’s and RZ’s.
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Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by Greasemeup »

JonW wrote:
Fitting a disk rear wheel in the LC swingarm has been done lots of times by the UK guys, and with a few mods it can be done using the ideas that GMU puts forwards, I would weld a tab on the swingarm, but to be honest the LC swinger is a bit thin..

Whatever you do like this will be a compromise as any extension and strengthening of the arm will move and transit forces differently into the shock and the rest of the frame, a worry with any conversion. Bear in mind LC (and RZ) frames were not designed for the forces of better suspension (especially forks) and bigger tyres and brakes


Just thinking that if the LC swinger isn't strong enough to support 17's with sticky rubber that bracing would help sort it, the Megelli is modern and similar but with braces that could be copied on an RD OEM arm. What do you think?


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Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by Greasemeup »

Greasemeup wrote:What are the centres for the FZ1 fork spread and fork diameter?

What is the calliper spacing?

What is the disc size?

Keep us informed.
Any advance on these questions DOC03 re your modified front end?


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DOC03

Re: Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by DOC03 »

GMU they don't really matter all that much. Most of those things can be fixed easily with spacers, or adapter plates, bearings etc.

The hard part with using the spokes with modern forks is getting the newer 4 pot calipers to clear the spokes, not whether you can get the hubs, discs etc to fit.

I really wanted to know if anyone had any knowledge / experience of making a spoked wheel work in a modern front end and if so what has worked for them?

I have tried a few options now and the xtz hub is pretty good, it will certainly work in the front end, with spacers the discs lines up well and I can source bearings that work with the R6 axle.

The Blue Spot calipers bolt straight on (83mm), and I think if I changed to oversized 320mm rotors (which are direct bolt hole match to KTM / WR) I might bring the calipers far enough out to just clear the spokes. If not I might have to include a small adapter plate for the calipers to swing em out a bit more.

Some others have skimmed / ground down the back of the calipers to make the fit and others have fitted Low Profile Brembos.

Its very popular to use XS650 hubs (as a good friend pointed out to me :-) and / or Aircooled Hubs which i may yet do as I have an XS650 hub coming but not sure yet.

If I could I would use an RD400C hub for the rear (if you can find one) but I have also investigated both Triumph and Ducati rears but I do still like the drum brake / cush drive of RD so will play further with that later.

I really don't want to modify the swinger. Already done that before and have a few spare swingers etc, but as i really want to keep the period look it will have to be the original / slightly mod original although until I get the front sorted i wont bother with the rear incase i have to go back to mags or original wheels.
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Re: Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by BRG1200 »

The hubs you mention are old ones, unless you're alking modern retro Triumphs?
I know most modern retro type bikes with spokes/discs may be single sided fronts, just pondering if there's anything "new" out there (i.e. spoked but intended for discs) rather than old XS650 bits. BMW adventure bikes, Triumph retro stuff, W650/800, just thinking aloud.
Ex UK, now in Adelaide. LC250/350. DT175. Shed full of sh1t in the vague form of dismantled rusty RD’s and RZ’s.
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Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by Greasemeup »

FYI, TDR front rim runs 320 disc with 38mm forks over 195 spread, there aren't many fork yolks the front wheel will fit into with that spread / diameter combo, the hub seems very wide and appears to fit without spacers into that space, most older Yamaha bikes under 750cc with mags have 190mm spread or under, I haven't had an opportunity to learn of the FZ1 spread, I guess, if it is 195 or over with bigger diameter forks it would fit fairly well as an alternative to the one you have, if your lucky, as the discs are the same OD they might even line up with your blue spots without horizontal shims or machining. The TDR speedo drive should even work with the RD clocks.

There have been many TDR rims re laced to 17's without any hassles with brake discs or callipers not fitting, using various models of callipers so no worries there, they run zero rim offset.

I have seen the rear rim used on RZ's which means no hassles fitting to RD OEM rear arm with the exception of working out the brakes.

Love the spoked wheels on RD's so I hope this info is helpful. It probably helps me organise my thoughts more than it helps you as, all it seems you have to do is make your blue spots clear the spokes on your wheel, then work out something for the rear.

GMU..


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DOC03

Re: Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by DOC03 »

Thanks GMU, very interesting.
I'll measure it today to make sure and let you know.
Pete
DOC03

Re: Front End Ideas 350LC

Post by DOC03 »

BRG, that's where I had been going,e g more modern adventure bikes.
I also looked at the Triumph Thruxton wheels (a nice set on ebay right now) but the front is single disc, and the rear is way too wide for the swinger. Others makes are similar but all have their fitment issues.

GMU, tried to find TDR rims / wheels and they seem pretty hard to find ??
Arent they single disc on the front ?

Pete
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