Paintwork - Sydneysiders / NSW group buy?

[JonW]

Ok, First up this is a long shot and if it gets like the tanks thread then im deleting the thread LOL

In a thread recently Pete mentioned about paintwork and it reminded me that Ive spoken to a few guys now about this and us Sydneysiders / Central Coastians struggle with this subject and I know about 5 of us who want paint done now and no one in Sydney is the right quality/price.

Seems our options (tho I havent really gone mad researching it) are Ace of Sprays in Brissy who advertised on here and Collideascope in Hornsby, who did stunning work on my XT...

Assuming a bunch of us were all ready and wanted something done, we might organise something and get a discount due to volume of the work as we may well get a decent kickback for doing say 5-10 bikes at one time.

Anyway, anyone with bodywork within 100(or so) kms of Sydney want something painted, please do say what it is so I can get an idea of the interest. I cant see this working well for anyone not in this catchment area as sending back n forth and managing the process would fall to someone else and its a nightmare waiting to happen if there is an issue.

Ready now - I have an RZ250R that has had all panels repaired and sanded, but the tank needs dipping and lining, its already been welded up tho. I also have all the decals.

Ready soon - I also need an LC doing - plastic bodywork repaired, sanded and primed, the tank needs dipping and lining and a dent taken out. No decals as yet, but i will get them.

[BRG1200]

Dipping? Do you mean chemical cleaning?
Any advice on that of interest.

Sounds like a worthwhile investigation Jon.
I guess Sadelaide is outside the catchment then :-/

[Ian_B]

Hi,

I've used collide-a-scope in the past when I lived in the area and had good results but recently I've been using http://dutchys.com.au/ near Wollongong. It's a small business and the customer service and painting is excellent. I've just had a reverse cylinder TZR done at the shop and would definitely recommend it, the only down side is the shop's popularity which means that there can be a bit of a wait.

I've got a KR-1S tank and full set of panels that need repairs and painting.

Cheers,

Ian

[JonW]

Dipping? Do you mean chemical cleaning?
Any advice on that of interest.

Sounds like a worthwhile investigation Jon.
I guess Sadelaide is outside the catchment then :-/

Yes a chemcial strip. Some are very harsh but Redistrip (in Blacktown I think) will do it for 150+gst with something thats eats old liners and paint and leaves the metal.

[JonW]

Hi,

I've used collide-a-scope in the past when I lived in the area and had good results but recently I've been using http://dutchys.com.au/ near Wollongong. It's a small business and the customer service and painting is excellent. I've just had a reverse cylinder TZR done at the shop and would definitely recommend it, the only down side is the shop's popularity which means that there can be a bit of a wait.

I've got a KR-1S tank and full set of panels that need repairs and painting.

Cheers,

Ian

Ian, that sounds great, were the prices any keener being down by the 'gong?

[Ian_B]

Ian, that sounds great, were the prices any keener being down by the 'gong?

Hi,

The costs weren't a great deal different to be honest but the standard of work on the TZR made the price well worth it. Some of my panels were in a real bad state and needed lots of plastic welding and missing pieces manufactured but the end result was like a factory panel.

Cheers,

Ian

[2TInstitute]

Try MJ's painting in Gateshead

[hybrid]

I'm not sure it's going to be all that much cheaper unless everyone was doing exactly the same colour etc.

Otherwise you're not going to save much in labour or anything else no matter how much you give them.

[JonW]

I would think a few of us would be after the same colours if there were enough takers, there re not that many RD/RZ blacks, whites and reds for example... well not as many as say ford!

[hybrid]

My LC tank needs a dent taken out and re-painted.
It's not registered at the moment though, so not really worth doing.

Also, it's painted a Mazda colour, so wouldn't fit in with the group theme.

[JonW]

Probably the best time to do it really if its not reg'd, youre not losing riding time

[Thommo]

I'm not sure it's going to be all that much cheaper unless everyone was doing exactly the same colour etc.

Otherwise you're not going to save much in labour or anything else no matter how much you give them.

As a painter and from a business point of view, what you've said is in the ball park.

[Thommo]

doing paint and panel of older 2nd hand stuff isn't quite that simple and easy to price and do compared to brand new unpainted OEM replacement parts.

Doing a group buy style aka lets all buy this make/model shock from the supplier and we get x price instead of y price isnt so clear cut and dried when working with older and inconsistent parts.

Our bikes, cars, hotrods etc are more works of love and passion unless your corporate big wig with a bank account with lots of big numbers in it.

doing brand new oem parts is quite easy, the parts are clean, the parts are straight and true, there are no hidden surprises. Prep is easy and straight forward which means you can cost it easily and predictably. x panel takes this amount of time, this amount of material, and give this amount of return. if asked if we give you this many parts, this colour etc its quite easy to say i can do this for you at x price instead of y price.

for 2nd hand stuff you need to set some baselines in order to try and get a better price.
we have steel parts and plastic parts.
will all the prep work be done before handing to the painter to final prep and paint?
if not, what plastic repairs will be required?
what steel work needs to be done to the tanks?
the body work for my bike, the plastics require a meduim amount of repair ( welding cracks etc) the tank requires cutting welding panel beating. a fair amount of labour intensive work.
The bodywork ive just done required minor work all round, minor cracks to be welded in the plastics, the tank was true, all that was required was removing about 50 billion coats of paint.

Overall, it wasn't that huge of labour intensive work to do and thusly cost was quite low.
my bike on the other hand, what bits i do have is quite some work, which for me, is only material cost. as a full paying job, it would cost the customer both kidneys and the kids.

everyone's parts will be slightly different, enough to effect the amount of work and thusly labour/materials.

If the majority of the prep work and repairs are done before being sent to the painter, it really needs to meet a minimum base standard of work, otherwise it's going to stuff the painter around redoing stuff, bog hasn't been sanded back enough, its been sanded flat instead of following the curve of the panel etc.

What primers and fillers have been used? nothing worse than having something rock up that looks nicely prepped, only to find out as you put an acyclic over the top that the base work was done using an oil/enamel system. Things get really messy really quickly and a headache for all involved.

the decals, the number of times i've been told ' yep, these decals are solvent proof blah blah blah', only to find at the first light dust coat of clear, the inks bleed...
decal thickness is another issue.

By getting a bunch of stuff done at once same colour, same decal styles, you can make a small, and i do say small savings in labour, and some small savings in materials.

Plus you have to deal with herding cats, getting all the parts in the same spot from various people all at the same time to pull it all off.

It's a good sounding idea, and if you could pull off the herding cats bit etc and setting guidelines so that all involved don't get burnt, it could work.

I think going down the club/group discount route would yield better results and less headaches.
Arrange an agreement with say a painter/paintshop in each state that give this rate to members of the group instead of that rate normally applied. it would enable people who are a bit cash strapped to get a better deal and get the work they want done without stressing about making ends meet whilst meeting deadlines. from an organizing point of view, your also not herding cats.

for this kind of work, its the smaller niche painters who will give best results and pricing. they're not in it for the money as such, they have a passion for the work they do. most smash repair shop dont really want nor care about small stuff coming in off the street. the vast majority of work they get is all insurance work, and the margins in that are cut throat i can tell ya. its a get it in, get it out the door pronto mentality.

[2TInstitute]

With the clearcoat lifting on the Mrs car after insurance work some have a little too much "in and out" mentality. Same place did my work van and it has 2 dull spots on it where you can see a different colour base coat. I had to look around to find a old school panel beater for my escort, they are few and far between these days.

[JonW]

Thommo, thats a great response. Thanks mate!

I agree with many of your points and nodded sagely at the trials and tribulations of our old parts, especially the brittle plastics. While I can weld plastic, fill, sand and prime etc etc, I know there are plenty of people who just cant do that, dont have the time or simply cant be bothered as well. So yes youre right, the level of prep would vary dramatically and that is an issue for anyone picking up this kind of work, as is the herding cats scenario for anyone managing it.

I probably didnt make myself very clear in the beginning as I wasnt looking for a 'single price for all', really just a better rate for the volume of the jobs at hand, hence the 'club / group rate' is a better terminology and Im glad you mentioned it. I was more looking for people to say what they needed to get some idea of the volume of work and then pitch that to some businesses and see what their appetite would be for the work, plus with them understanding there was a body of work they could do now with potentially more to come as none of us ever does just a single project (oh how i wish I could!).

Lets keep this open and see what other people have that needs doing, and also if anyone wants to give some ballpark costs then Im interested to hear them. I know from my XT tank work that Collideascope suggested that a tank paint is around 450+gst, rectification work is circa 100/hr and decals are extra. They dont do dipping or liners in house, that costs extra. That makes a tank cost about 700-1k, yet I know people will say they had a whole LC (tank, mudguard, side panels and ducktail) done for 800... I wish someone would paint my LC for that, its looking more like 1.5-2k here