Paintwork - Sydneysiders / NSW group buy?

[Greasemeup]

Thommo,

If you have some spare time perhaps you could write up some basic guide lines to help people save money. Things we should do & not do, tests for decals, prep basics for plastic & steel.

The best way to save yourself cash is to do as much of it as you can yourself, and do it as right as possible, what's the worst that could happen? you would be right back where you started & paying no more than you would have if you took an untouched item for paint..


Perhaps we could have a separate forum section for paint & panel on the web site, with threads dedicated to subjects like rust, stripping, bog, prime, decals, and for the brave, top coat?

Information sharing is what forums are all about, free advice from a pro (not that kind of Pro!) and moderated to remove miss information would be the goal, to help people that wouldn't normally have a go to have a better chance of success.

Right now there are Aussies asking for advice from the UK web site about how to powder coat or paint a frame, he should be able to get that info here, right?

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[Thommo]

With the clearcoat lifting on the Mrs car after insurance work some have a little too much "in and out" mentality. Same place did my work van and it has 2 dull spots on it where you can see a different colour base coat. I had to look around to find a old school panel beater for my escort, they are few and far between these days.

Ah yes, the clear coat lifting flaking etc saga. 1, it is the ruch is thru mentality, not even time between coats ( tack time) and applying to much, it actually shrinks when it does dry and lifts as a result. high build primers are a good example, slap half a dozen coats on in one hit and in 3 months it lifts...

the other issue is the clear coat itself, in a bid to cut costs, in a bid to increase or maintain a margin, and with insurance companies constantly pushing the we will only pay you this for this work, paint shops use cheaper clears.

The cheaper clears are euro spec etc, they're not rated for our harsh conditions, among other things, clears and paints in genereal, have a UV rating. higher the rating, the better they are for us here. it means its also a more expensive paint. No doubt as you've been wandering around carparks, you noticed car boot lids, roofs, bonnets, the clear has faded and is flaking away leaving big dull patches ( the basecoat exposed).

[Thommo]

Thommo,

If you have some spare time perhaps you could write up some basic guide lines to help people save money. Things we should do & not do, tests for decals, prep basics for plastic & steel.

I generally stay away from paint threads, they're like oil threads! hahaha I will knock some stuff up, inc flibreglassing, as i think small dedicated forums like here, the absence of keyboard pros would make such topics work as they should.

Right now there are Aussies asking for advice from the UK web site about how to powder coat or paint a frame, he should be able to get that info here, right?

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I havent spent a great deal of time the lc crazy, but i thought that there would be some good threads on the subject? i guess not, shame really.

actaully... i have an early 80's kx80 laying around here that could do witha strip and paint on the frame etc. umm.....

[Thommo]

Jon, i'll put up some more tonight when i get home, going riding in the hills today, apparantly there is a hrose race on and it's deem so important that its a public holiday!

[JonW]

This is all very very good of you Thommo, and very much appreciated.

I think one of the things that always worries Pros, no matter what business they are in, is that they get a lot of customers who say 'can i save money if i do x?' and then never do the work and still expect the discounted rate. Ive seen that with plumbing and other trades on houses where they seem almost shocked that Ive done what I said I would.

I also wonder if the primers we buy in Supercheap et al are good enough for the Pros. I mean if they spray a lovely top coat but it sinks cos of my cheapo filler and primers, isnt that then my fault etc. That stuff would be hard work as a pro as they would be blamed even tho it wasnt actually their fault. If we can understand how to mitigate that it would be very cool.

Horse race... ahh yes... time to get out n ride, no one else on the roads and less cops! wahooooo!

[hybrid]

If I was the one putting the top coats on, I wouldn't want someone else priming it to be honest.
You really should stick to a single brand the whole way through IMO to make sure you have the best compatibility.

What's under the topcoat is more important than the topcoat itself.

[2TInstitute]

With the clearcoat lifting on the Mrs car after insurance work some have a little too much "in and out" mentality. Same place did my work van and it has 2 dull spots on it where you can see a different colour base coat. I had to look around to find a old school panel beater for my escort, they are few and far between these days.

Ah yes, the clear coat lifting flaking etc saga. 1, it is the ruch is thru mentality, not even time between coats ( tack time) and applying to much, it actually shrinks when it does dry and lifts as a result. high build primers are a good example, slap half a dozen coats on in one hit and in 3 months it lifts...

the other issue is the clear coat itself, in a bid to cut costs, in a bid to increase or maintain a margin, and with insurance companies constantly pushing the we will only pay you this for this work, paint shops use cheaper clears.

The cheaper clears are euro spec etc, they're not rated for our harsh conditions, among other things, clears and paints in genereal, have a UV rating. higher the rating, the better they are for us here. it means its also a more expensive paint. No doubt as you've been wandering around carparks, you noticed car boot lids, roofs, bonnets, the clear has faded and is flaking away leaving big dull patches ( the basecoat exposed).

Thanks for that AAMI have a life time waranty on the repairs and we will hold them to that, they are supposed to give the repairer a second go at it, but I'm going to hit them with all that and tell them NO FUCKING WAY. Considering the pricks also pinched a "zoom zoom" number plate surrounds................................

[hybrid]

St Marys Prestige did my Mustang and it's spot on.
I know the bloke though, and he's also a big Mustang fan. They do ground up rebuilds.

You speak to him and he will tell you that it's hard to find old school beaters. Most of the new blokes just want to bolt new panels on and are not interested in older stuff that takes some massaging to work well.

I've seen my dads car painted three times by a mate of his and even after the third time it's terrible. They went straight red in the end because the clear kept peeling off.

[Thommo]

I also wonder if the primers we buy in Supercheap et al are good enough for the Pros.

cringes. funnily enough I tried the SCA ( supercheaps own brand, re badged septone?) wax and grease remover in a pressure pack can the other day, just because I was curious. For cleaning things up, ie, an initial de grease before sanding original crappy paint etc, it's not too bad. if I was doing semi industrial etc, it's ok. i'd use it on my box trailer, frames etc, I wouldn't use it as final prep before laying candy apple down..

Septone? It's been a few yrs since I've touched the stuff, utter shit. the bog was ok however. Fine grade particles and it didn't set too hard, and by that I mean rigidity. It held a degree of flex which is good on panels that have some movement in them.

the wax and grease remover had an oily film feel to it, it just never felt right.

K&H used to be quite ok, I've no recent usage of it to say how it is now.

I see supercheap now stock Concept Paints. For about 2 yrs, the company I used to work for used it on drop side ute trays, bull bars etc. It was fine for that, good long term durability etc. the basecoat tinter viscosity was quite thick and required a fair amount of reducer.

most of my professional usage has been Spies Hecker, Dupont, De Beers, House Of Kolor and Jotun.

One on of my trips to a paint lab in brisbane for reasons i wont go into, the lab techs had a basecoat tinter cross reference chart between Spies hecker, Concept Paints and dupont. allegedly, the same company made the tinters and the tinter numbers/colours were a deadset match. You could substitute tinters and the colour would be the same. The only difference was the quality of the binders, which is one of the biggest costs of paint.

[Thommo]

If I was the one putting the top coats on, I wouldn't want someone else priming it to be honest.
You really should stick to a single brand the whole way through IMO to make sure you have the best compatibility.

What's under the topcoat is more important than the topcoat itself.

This is true, ideally, it's one brand and composition all the way thru. it's not always possible however for various reasons.

[Thommo]

You speak to him and he will tell you that it's hard to find old school beaters. Most of the new blokes just want to bolt new panels on and are not interested in older stuff that takes some massaging to work well.

.

panel beating is a dying trade. The good blokes are still around, just takes a bit to find them.

[Greasemeup]

Hey Thommo,

Do you have any advice for me on filtration for my compressor.

I was thinking a desiccant filter and a couple of pre filters.

What brands are commonly sold in Australia and what dew point should I be aiming for with desiccant choice?

Anybody else got their head around this stuff?

GMU


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[Thommo]

For no particular reason ive always used Norgren filters/ regulators.

I tend to run them in pairs, one for oil, and one for air.

Like this



I've found running the dual setup which is commonly available to be more effective. These setups would be found at blackwoods, total tools, all tools, any good tool shop and place that sells compressors. Sometimes the bigger bolt and bearing shops sell good setups too.

Little things like how you place your airline from the compressor to the tool end makes a difference too.

[Thommo]

You can also buy little dryer humidifier units, mostly they are little 240 volt units that you sit beside the compressor and you can control your oil moisture content to a high degree.

Expensive but...